Mirko Ilić (46), world-renowned designer and illustrator just recently gave the last page of the redesigning project of high circulation daily newspaper Većernji list to its editors and owners. With his phenomenal and warranted image that journalists 25 years ago described when he was the front runner distinguished vivacious comic collective Novi kvadrat: cynic, urban anarchist, concrete base.
At the end of the seventies and the beginning of the eighties Ilić illustrated rebellious illustrations and fought for a few tableau comics in Polet. He designed LP jackets, the covers of Start magazine and Danas weekly. He became world renown in New York: received numerous acknowledgements for his political and economic illustrations as art director of Time magazine, as graphic editor he began a minor revolution on the pages of The New York Times. His works are exhibited in The Smithsonian, included in an anniversary collection of the 12 most popular American designers. He married a native New Yorker, with whom he has 2 children and live in a prestigious location in Manhatten, between 2nd and 3rd Ave., where his studio Mirko Ilic is located.

A Conversation with the most successful Croatian illustrator and designer, former art director of Time magazine and graphic editor of the New York Times. He became famous in Croatia as one of the front-runner of comic strip collective NOVI kvadrat and illustrator of Start and Danas, after which he moved to New York location of his studio Mirko Ilic Corp. in Manhattan, re design of Većernji list, life in America and a Croatian passport. Sex and Lies

In August last year he began to work in collaboration with studio Arkzin, Dejan and Ruta Kršić, in the redesigning of Večernji list and these days completed the job. It is still unknown when his work will be made public. He has since returned home to New York.

He will return to Zagreb in March for the opening of his exhibition in gallery Račić on Cvjetni trg. called Sex and Lies dealing with the theme of possible and impossible penis shapes.

Nacional: Why is the exhibition dedicated to the penis?

I took part in a World Designer Association conference in Paris this year. The colleague with whom I collaborated on the Rajko Grlić film ‘Za ljubav je potrebno troje’, has a gallery on an island next to Notre Dame, offered me the opportunity to exhibit there. It was nonsensical for me to arrive there with previously exhibited work. In Paris, you can offer sex or food. Food does not interest me at all. I created a set of computer animation based on the penis together with Lauren DeNapoli head of 3D computer animation in my studio. We called it sex and lies.

Nacional: What drew you the redesigning of Večernji list when you are world renown?

First, because it is Večernji list, second, because I can come to Zagreb, and third because I recognize the mentality of the people. A few years ago, I joked with Nevenka Mikac and Karlo Rosandić how it would be a good idea to redesign the newspaper. Then, last year I received an official invitation from the owner. I am very pleased that currently Večernji list does not belong to anyone politically and variety is the basis of democracy. My name appeared in Večernji list the first time in 1969 when I received an award from the newspaper and Zagrebačka banka for best-written work ‘ What would I do if I were rich?’ The award was a day in Zagorje with Gustav Krklec. My mother showed all that her son appeared on the last page of Večernji list. For my job at Večernji list it was important that I was American with references that spoke excellent Croatian. It is a fact that I am an American invited by and paid by Austrians to work in Zagreb. It is funny that I work in my hometown as a foreigner and sleep in a hotel.

Nacional: What is the payment like for redesigning Večernji list as compared to in America?

It is a quarter of the money that I would receive in the U.S but I didn’t want to do it there. Actually, I heard some gossip about myself: that I accepted that job because the American economy has suffered so much from the Sept 11 attacks. They must have forgotten I started working last summer.

Nacional: Are you satisfied with the redesigning? Were you limited?

Apart from one thing still under consideration, not one of my ideas was refused. I had complete freedom, maybe compliments to the editors and owners sounds silly but everyone who knows me knows that there is not enough money for complements. I had support from the editor’s office, editors and owners and especially editor in chief Horst Pirker. Changes I suggested were not my designer masturbation, rather the needs of a high cirrculation daily newspaper.

Dark cover

Nacional: What is you greatest influence?

My contract requires secrecy, all I can say is Večernji list will be neater, more attractive and softer. The biggest problem is that men mainly work on newspapers and thus headlines must be bigger.

Nacional: Is redesigning from your feminine side?

I just overcame machismo. When editors see empty space they fill it up. No one ever thinks that more is less. The greatest success is to change that kind of thinking, to influence journalists to understand these things, like the important part of the cup is the opening where there is nothing
Nacional: Do you think you succeeded, that the editorial staff of Večernji list will implement your ideas and the conservative readership will accept them?

All at Večernji list reacted positively. The trick to good positive cooperation is rather simple. You must believe in the people you work with and allow them room to move. This is difficult for a country where the president leaves office only upon his death and not at loss at the polls. As for the public, I think the most conservative are the young not older who have gone through everything and know quite well what the can and cannot allow. Journalists must live some time before the public accepts them. That is what I accomplished with the redesign of Večernji list, the same way an interior decorator will do with an apartment. Then you come and hang the photo of your mother, auntie’s tablecloth. In some cases additions turn out bad others liven up the place. Apartments of famous people look like nobody lives in them, a hint of where dirty socks could be found. There must be a place for dirty socks in the living scheme. Until there is a place for them, I don’t know if I have succeeded.

Nacional: When Rujana Jeger, your daughter from your first marriage to Slavenka Drakulić, called requesting a cover design, what were your first thoughts?

It was one of the rare requests I got from Croatia. You’re right, she called from Austria, therefore an order from Austrians. I accepted that job as a designer with any secret signals that may reveal the relationship between Rujana and me. I knew what the average Croatian book cover looked like and wanted the cover to be in connection with ‘Darkroom’. I wanted to see raw, war, rough
Nacional: The cover resembles something childlike.
-When you read the book Rujana seems like a normal person who keeps all us lunatic at bay. The remaining family pictures are smudges in various colors. Those are all child element but looks like someone spit on the cover, like a slap to social taste. Rujana does that often in her book. Unfortuntely, I must demand. I do not experience as a person rather as my child. It is strange that in the meanwhile she dared to grow up.

Ten years later

Nacional: At the beginning of the 90’s you stated that you wished to return to Zagreb to change your uncomfortable feelings toward your former association ULUPUH seeing people in black shirts. Has that changed?

Yes and no. Yes, I am currently sitting in the Hotel intercontinental and no longer in the Esplanade and do not see the ULUPUH building. Yes, there were no longer black shirts as I was sitting in the Esplanade. No, so far after the exhibition Novi kvadrat I was called Saturday morning at the hotel and was told ‘This morning a rocket hit your exhibition and a poor man was killed.’

One nightmare replaced another. The evenings press conference at KIC, one journalist asked me ?you are American, it is normal to be shot at..’I explained that there are two reasons for that, either no law or city war. It has been known to happen with pistols and machine guns, but rockets. Five months ago, after the planes hit the WTC the same journalist called me and said ‘this is worse than rockets’.

Today people seem happier, restaurants are full, well dressed, and I however am talking about the city center.

Nacional: What do you think about the change of political climate which lead to the rehabilitation of people who were undesired during the HDZ government. Slavenka Drakulić was a witch from Rija, and today a praised author?

I was one of those husbands who escaped to the U.S. They forgot to write that I escaped to America in 1986. It is not all HDZ’s fault. There was a lot of stupidity before them, but HDZ just hid theirs better. I wouldn’t blame so much as one party for the stupidity of their leaders. What makes them more stupid is the power that was given to them, power just shows people’s true colors.

‘Kavkaz’ ‘Zvečka’, Polet

Nacional: How do you regard witches of Rija today?

A Chinese proverb ‘ If you sit long enough at the bank of the river, the body of your enemy sooner or later will float by’. Witches were not those who changed because of political reasons, rather they stay the same at the base. They went straight, veered from time to time but did not change. They didn’t follow the system and consequently went head to head. I always say, Slavenka doesn’t need Croatia, you have proven yourself. Her books are purchased all over the world.

Nacional: Is it true your parents lost an apartment in Zagreb?

My father passed away while my mother lived in Bosnia, therefore I no longer have anything here. We did not lose the apartment, rather for several reasons, one being that my mother is Serbian, left the military the apartment in Borongaj.

Nacional: Why were not at ‘Dani hrvatskog dizajna’?

Because I am not a Croat.

Nacional: Do you think about becoming one?

It is possible that I may become a Croat. There are two ways to measure democracy of a state. First, by definition of who is a traitor. In short, those who are against us, and that is a totalitarian system. While the second is to obtain citizenship if you are not born there. I left in 1986 and when my passport expired in 1991, I became an American citizen. What other could I get at that time? At that time the only existing institution was the Yugoslav embassy, pro Serbian embassy. After, the Croatian consulate but he who opened it did not have a Jewish wife as I did. I don’t have the right to that so called passport. There were only three ways – which I lived in Croatia before 1945, I wasn’t born yet, that I was born in Croatia, or that one of my parents was Croatian. I fulfill not one of these conditions. If I were born in Paraguay, if I knew not a word of Croatia or never been to Croatia and my mother Croatian I wouldn’t have a problem. I am not a creation of Croatia, because I do not know Croatia so well, I am a creation of Zagreb, ‘Kavkaza’ ‘Zvečke’, Polet.I am a creation of the Croatian culture that does not want me. The problem is my success, if I weren’t successful, I wouldn’t bother anyone.

Nacional: Why did the Chinese recently put a noose on the cover of a recently published item?

I didn’t influence their decision. A noose is a strong element. Its roots are in the political illustration in connection with black slaves. The noose was published on the cover of Emerge magazine and thought that I was black before they met me. In spite of the existence of censorship in China, there were enough anti communistic parts, parodies on the hammer and sickle although did not include works based on sex. The poster for the Eric Jong’s play ‘Fear of Flying’ included a middle finger. Some things just cannot be stopped.

Nacional: Why did you go as minor leave home and what did your parents say?

My mother was relatively young and already separated and the custom was to stay with your parent until you graduated from college and possibly longer. First, I interfered with her life. Second, I knew of some other women that I preferred to live with. I was lucky that I stated working at 17 and by 18 earned enough to pay rent. I quickly realized that a 1-room apartment was a mistake. I was the only one of my peers with an apartment and there was always people coming over. Then I realized I couldn’t work with the company and moved to a 2-room apartment. No one could enter the one room while the other was for socializing.

Company with Maurović

Nacional: Did moving often as a child have an effect on you?

My father was military personnel and we moved around a lot. This made my trip to the U.S much easier. I didn’t have time to root anywhere or belong to groups. Xenophobia could not attach itself to me. Wherever I was, I had friends. It is true that I cried upon my departure, however I quickly found new friends. By 17, I hitchhiked across Europe without knowing so much as one foreign language, aside from a little French. I traveled and visited well-known comic strip artists and later in Novi kvadrat it was easier to contact foreign publishers , send them comic strips and expand internationally. I wasn’t afraid that someone would tell me they were worthless and I shouldn’t bother. I knocked on all doors. I did not have rich or famous parents to help me. Everything I had was my talent, which was minimal and resourceful.

Nacional: You were in the company of Andrija Maurović, what did you learn from him?

You can be a lunatic for the rest of your life and eventually it will pay off.

Nacional: What kind of memories do you have of Novi kvadrat?

That was a time of new ideas , intellectual sophistry. I learned to be insolent and seek the impossible. We had the feeling that we shook the institutions. We didn’t wish to succeed locally, but be competitive internationally, where we were sure there weren’t boarders. Today, it is an old and dead kvadrat.

Nacional: What was most difficult to adapt to in the U.S?

The worst thing was anonymity. In the triangle I lived in between ‘Kavkaz’, ‘Zvečka’, Jelačić square and Zvijezda I know every third person. There was only one address in New York where I could go. The first 3 years I swallowed American TV until I finally understood the internal American code.

Nacional: Why did you resign from Time and The New York Times?

Those jobs were good for my resume, although they were conservative I knew how much I could accomplish, that it did not lead to conflict. When I though I could move the lines but it would take another 1 year, I gave up. I didn’t burn those bridges but continued to work with them.

Desperation, Anger and Stupidity

Nacional: What were you afraid of?

I went to the U.S before Internet, cable TV, I knew it only from the movies. I didn’t have the impression that America was the promised land. I was afraid of my own stupidity. At one gala evening it occurred to me I couldn’t tie my bow tie because in Croatia I tried it by elastic. On those banal occurrences which are unimportant yet are brought to your attention, you begin to feel inferior. The dinner is great and gala but at once you have 2 extra knives and 3 strange forks. Luckily, I’m not the type who is afraid to ask. I was afraid America would change me, and I would become something I didn’t like and wouldn’t even realize it. To sell items involuntarily, I do not have anything against money but do not want it at any price. That’s why my studio has only 3 employees. Mass production does not interest me or exploitation of people. I don’t wish to run around to stupid meetings while a mass follows me and plays with my toys. I entered this field because I didn’t want to be like my parents or many other people wearing ties. Being a artist means push limits , joke, and attack institutions. I would disappointment myself if I were to enter some kind of institution. I have made more compromises in life for my children and not for my career. When my wife Nicky got pregnant, she left her job at CBS and I closed my company Oko & Manos. I stopped working nights . This time were too important to miss, When my son Ivo began to crawl, I realized I could no longer work from home because we lived in a loft as there was no where to go. I told this to leading designer Milton Glaser who lives in the same building and he offered me the fourth floor at a reasonable price as it price was less important then who he was surrounded by.

Nacional: What impression did you wife have of Croatia?

After me, nothing can shock her. She could adapt anywhere and to anything. We spent last summer in Omiš. I didn’t want to be surrounded by the posh in Dubrovnik or the intellects in Istria.

Nacional: How did you view the war in Croatia from an American perspective?

When the war began I had been at Time magazine as art director for 1 month. War photos arrived on my desk from Slovenia first, then Croatia. I had a great feeling of helplessness. I don’t have any illusions that I could have done something if I was here, but to watch the war from the U.S was to watch you nightmare from the side. I experienced a great shock when as a member of the jury who graded ads for the Olympic games in Barcelona. I traveled to London with my wife and upon our arrival in our hotel room and turned on CNN, I saw my elementary school in Bijeljina and Arkan’s team in front. The reporter talked of massacre. I was safe although part of that desperation, anger and stupidity came to me. Someone in a Croatian newspaper said that nationalism has a little to do with love and a lot to do with hate. This does not interest me as any kind of nationalism is disgusting.

Nacional: Do you see your future in Croatia?

I am staying 7 days, enough that disappointment does not affect me and they do not have time to spit on me. If I were to return, they would say that didn’t succeed in America and that’s why I have returned. I don’t need that.

Monograph in Chinese
25 years of work
In the book ‘Mirko Ilić’ which did Chinese designer and publisher Wang Xua publish last year and Laetite Wolff with 80 works recapulating 25 years of Ilić’s work and created fro Chinese students of design.

Mirko Ilić: Born 1956 in Bijeljina

Career

Finished secondary school for applied arts where he met most of his colleagues with whom he at the end of the seventies created Novi kvadrat in Polet

End of the seventies and beginning of the eighties created illustrations for the covers of Start and Danas.

Published in Italian magazine Panorama and several illustrations in color and covers

March 25 1986 departs for the U.S

1991 becomes the art director for Time magazine

1992 becomes graphic editor of The New York Times

1993 with Mexican designer Alex Arce created graphic design company Oko & Mano, Mirko Ilić was Oko(eye), while Alex mano (hand), work for Sony, MTV

1995 created Mirko Ilić Corp dealing with graphic design and 3D computer graphics

from 1994 to 1995 vice president of the American institute of graphic Art (AIGA) instructor at School of Visual Arts and Cooper Union

2001 with Steven Heller the biggest authority of history of graphic design writes book ‘genius moves, 100 Icons of Graphic design’